NFNP 2x35 | The Real Exorcist Story: St. Louis, Demons & Halloween

speaker-0: Happy Halloween, everybody! Welcome back to the notorious Friday Night Posse. And before we do anything else, I feel like we have to acknowledge something. We have officially been doing this stupid podcast for more than a year.

speaker-1: That seems impossible.

speaker-0: It does. Somehow it feels like we started six months ago and also 15 years ago at the exact same time.

speaker-1: Podcast time.

speaker-0: And almost exactly a year ago on our Halloween episode. We talked haunted places, Eastern State Penitentiary, whether ghosts are real, and then we did the St. Louis classic, the Lemp Mansion.

speaker-1: Which I knew basically nothing about.

speaker-0: You knew nothing about it. Then I started listing all the people in the same family who died or killed themselves there. And your analysis was basically, why do people keep living in this fucking house?

speaker-1: Which I stand by. At some point the house wins. Move.

speaker-0: Correct. You don't need ghost hunters, you need Zillow.

speaker-1: possibly cursed in the disclosure paperwork and get out.

speaker-0: We'll come back to Lemp a little later, but this year I wanted another St. Louis Halloween story, and I think I found the one. Because one of the most famous horror movies ever made, one of the most disturbing movies ever made, a movie that basically changed the horror genre, has a much bigger St. Louis connection than I think most people realize.

speaker-1: What movie?

speaker-0: The Exorcist.

speaker-1: Okay. Yeah, I did not know that was a Saint Louis thing.

speaker-0: That's why we're doing it. Everybody knows the movie. Little girl, bed shaking, priests, possession, green vomit, head spinning around like an owl that just discovered cocaine. Very

speaker-1: Very Catholic family entertainment.

speaker-0: Perfect Christmas movie. But the movie was based on a novel, and that novel was inspired by a real case. Not a little girl, a teenage boy. And although the whole thing started near Washington, D.C., the heart of the story, the priests, the exorcism, and the ending happened right here in St. Louis.

speaker-1: So we're claiming the exorcist.

speaker-0: I think we can. St. Louis claims everything else, toasted ravioli, pork steaks, the ice cream cone, the Olympics that nobody remembers. We're taking the Exorcist. Gateway Arch, Cardinals, Blues, C D S C, Possessed Teenager, all the classics. So, lights down, kids in bed, grab a beer, preferably not a limp, and let's go back to nineteen forty nine. A teenage boy is living with his family near Washington, D.C. For decades, his identity is protected. Most accounts call him Robbie. Others use the fake name Roland Doe. His identity stayed private for decades. A 2021 report identified him as Ronald Edwin Hunkler. But for purposes of this story, we're just going to call him Robbie.

speaker-1: Because that's less weird than repeatedly naming a dead guy who was thirteen years old when this happened.

speaker-0: The story begins with his aunt. Different accounts use different names or nicknames, but the family story says she had an interest in spiritualism, seances, and Ouija boards. And according to the family story, she introduced Robbie to a Ouija board.

speaker-1: There it is.

speaker-0: There it is. Movie over. Don't touch the Ouija board.

speaker-1: If there's one thing every horror movie has taught us, don't buy the old house, don't read the Latin, don't open the basement door, and don't fuck with the Ouija board.

speaker-0: Right. Nobody has ever used a Ouija board in a movie and contacted their grandma who just says, I'm doing great. Heaven's lovely. Your grandpa says hi.

speaker-1: No, it's always pazzu.

speaker-0: Every time. So, the ant dies, and the family believes Robbie may have tried to contact her. Then, things supposedly begin happening inside the house: scratching noises, dripping sounds when there's no leak, footsteps, objects moving, his mattress shaking, bed covers being disturbed, furniture supposedly sliding or flying around, and eventually, Robbie himself begins showing scratches.

speaker-1: Okay, now I do have questions.

speaker-0: You should, because this is where we need the giant NFNP disclaimer. We weren't there. This was 1949. Accounts conflict. Some of this comes from the diary kept by Jesuit priest Raymond Bishop. Some comes from people interviewed decades later. Some comes from newspapers. And some comes from more than 75 years of people retelling the story.

speaker-1: Which how you end up with a demon eventually driving a Chrysler through the arch.

speaker-0: Exactly. Every retelling adds 5%. So we're going to separate what was documented from what has grown into legend. But the family apparently believed something serious was happening. They consulted doctors, psychiatrists, and their Lutheran minister. They looked for normal explanations. Nothing seemed to resolve it. And eventually, the family came to St. Louis.

speaker-1: Why Saint Louis?

speaker-0: Family. Robbie's mother had St. Louis connections, and they had relatives here. They stayed with family in the northwest part of St. Louis County, generally identified as Bel Noor. And that's where this stops being some distant Georgetown ghost story. Now you've got a teenage boy sleeping in a suburban St. Louis house. Not some gothic castle, not an abandoned asylum, a house in Bel Noor.

speaker-1: Which is somehow creepier.

speaker-0: Way creepier. Because we've both driven through neighborhoods like that a thousand times. You're imagining this old stone haunted mansion. Instead, it's like, turn right after the schnooks.

speaker-1: Demon possession, but you're still fifteen minutes from the airport.

speaker-0: And a relative of Robbie's had a connection to St. Louis University. That eventually brings in a Jesuit priest named Raymond Bishop. Father Bishop visits the house in March of 1949. According to his written account, the boy's bed was moving violently. Bishop blesses the house. And soon another Jesuit enters the story, Father William Bodern. Bodern was pastor of St. Francis Xavier College Church. The big church right there by SLU. If you've driven down Grand, you've seen it. Yep. And this is where I love how unbelievably St. Louis this gets. Because you can still stand outside college church today. Students are going to class. There's traffic on grand. There's probably somebody trying to park badly. And somewhere in the history of that church, the priest who led one of the most famous alleged exorcisms in American history was working right there.

speaker-1: That's wild, said

speaker-0: Bodern goes to see the boy. He witnesses enough that he believes this is serious. And eventually, St. Louis Archbishop Joseph Ritter gives formal permission to perform the Catholic rite of exorcism. Now imagine being Bodern, because this isn't something priests are doing every Tuesday afternoon.

speaker-1: Right. There's not an exorcism department.

speaker-0: Welcome to St. Louis University. Here's your parking pass. Faculty lounge is upstairs. Demon removal is Wednesdays.

speaker-1: Bring your own holy water.

speaker-0: According to accounts from people involved, Bodern basically has to study. He reads up on the right. And this is a guy who had already been through World War II. So when the church decides who should stare down Satan, apparently the combat veteran gets the assignment.

speaker-1: That checks out.

speaker-0: Another young Jesuit named Walter Halloran gets pulled in. And his introduction to the whole thing is incredible. According to the story Halloran later told, Bodern asked him for a ride. Halloran thinks he's basically the driver. They get to the house, and Bodern's like, by the way, I'm performing an exorcism. I may need you to hold the kid down. That's not what I signed up for.

speaker-1: I'd be like, I actually have another Uber pickup.

speaker-0: Sorry, father, surge pricing. But Halloran stays. And according to the diary and later accounts, the process becomes physical. Robbie struggles, spits, screams, scratches appear on his body, objects supposedly move. Halloran eventually gets hit hard enough that his nose is broken. Yep.

speaker-1: By the kid? So even if there's no demon, this still sucks.

speaker-0: That's an important part of this story. Even if you remove the supernatural explanation entirely, something deeply troubling was happening. Either this boy was experiencing an extraordinary psychological crisis, or something else was going on. Or some mixture of trauma, suggestion, belief, and group reinforcement created this escalating situation. And Walter Halloran later said he was never completely certain the boy was actually possessed.

speaker-1: Which somehow makes his story more believable.

speaker-0: I agree. Because if he came out years later saying, I saw Satan, he had horns, he gave me his business card, okay. But he's essentially saying, I saw things I couldn't explain. I'm not going to tell you I know exactly what they were. That's fair. And the exorcism doesn't happen one night like the movie. It stretches for weeks. The rites happen at the relative's house, at college church facilities, at the Jesuits' White House retreat south of St. Louis. And ultimately at U Lexiun Brothers Hospital in South St. Louis.

speaker-1: That's the old hospital that's gone now.

speaker-0: Yeah, Ulexion Brothers Hospital was on South Broadway. Part of the later legend comes from the fact that the building is gone, which is perfect for a ghost story. Because if the room still existed, somebody could walk in and say, this is a normal hospital room. Instead, it's gone. So now the room can be anything you want.

speaker-1: That's ghost storied gold.

speaker-0: Now there are all kinds of stories attached to the case. Words supposedly appearing scratched into Robbie's skin, images, messages, speaking languages he shouldn't know, physical strength, objects flying, and every version gets slightly more dramatic. The priest's diary does describe disturbing behavior and markings, but some of the most famous claims you see online aren't nearly as cleanly documented as people make them sound. So

speaker-1: You're saying Reddit exaggerated something?

speaker-0: First recorded instance in history.

speaker-1: Huge if true.

speaker-0: Now here's another part that sounds like Hollywood, but is part of the documented SLU history. At one point, Robbie is at the Jesuit White House retreat. If you've never been there, it's south of the city overlooking the Mississippi. Beautiful place. And according to the account, Robbie tries to jump from a bluff. Halloran tackles him before he can go over.

speaker-1: Jesus.

speaker-0: Yeah. Again. Forget demons for a second. These priests are dealing with a kid who appears to be in real danger. And this goes on for more than a month. March becomes April. Bodern is reportedly fasting while performing the rites. The family is exhausted. The priests are exhausted. And eventually Robbie ends up back at Ulixian Brothers Hospital. Easter Sunday passes. Then Easter Monday. April eighteenth, nineteen forty nine. According to Father Bishop's diary, Robbie goes into another violent episode. Bodern continues the rite, and eventually, it stops. Robbie wakes up, calm. He says, he's gone.

speaker-1: That's creepy.

speaker-0: Very. He reportedly tells the priests he had a dream or vision involving Saint Michael fighting the devil. And from that point, the case is effectively over. Huh?

speaker-1: Just like that.

speaker-0: Pretty much. After weeks of chaos. Done. He returns home. And here's maybe the weirdest epilogue. Ronald Hunkler grows up, gets married, has a family, and becomes an engineer. For NASA.

speaker-1: No way. Yes. That's the craziest part of the story.

speaker-0: Right? You survive an exorcism as a teenager and then you're like, fuck it, let's go to the moon.

speaker-1: He's seen worse.

speaker-0: Apollo mission problem? Please. I once had three Jesuits holding me down while somebody threw holy water at me.

speaker-1: Houston, we have a demon.

speaker-0: According to later reporting, he became an engineer and worked for NASA, including on technology tied to the space program. And apparently he spent much of his adult life not wanting coworkers to find out that he was the kid whose story helped inspire the exorcist. Which, can you blame him?

speaker-1: Imagine office small talk. What'd you do this weekend? nothing. What'd you do as a teenager? Absolutely nothing. Change the subject.

speaker-0: And that brings us to Hollywood. Because in August 1949, the Washington Post publishes a story about a Maryland boy reportedly freed from demonic possession through exorcism. A young William Peter Blady learns about the case through a 1949 newspaper story. Blady had attended Georgetown, and the story sticks with him. Years later, he writes The Exorcist. The novel comes out in 1971. Then William Friedkin directs the movie adaptation in 1973. And that's where the real story becomes the story everybody knows. The teenage boy becomes 12 year old Reagan McNeil. The geography shifts. Georgetown becomes the center of everything. Characters are combined and invented. The supernatural effects are turned up to eleven.

speaker-1: No pea soup?

speaker-0: As far as I can determine, no documented projectile pea soup.

speaker-1: Head rotation?

speaker-0: Also not in Father Bishop's notes.

speaker-1: That's disappointing.

speaker-0: Apparently Satan was much more restrained before Hollywood.

speaker-1: Union rules.

speaker-0: And here's what's crazy. When people talk about the Exorcist today, they talk about Georgetown, the Exorcist Steps, the House, Washington, D.C. But the real case that inspired it, the part involving the formal Catholic Exorcism, is loaded with St. Louis locations, Bel Noor, St. Louis University. College Church, Lexiune Brothers, the White House Retreat, the St. Louis Archdiocese, St. Louis Jesuits. So

speaker-1: We really should own this.

speaker-0: I genuinely think St. Louis undersells this story. We've got ghost tours, we've got Lemp Mansion, we've got the darkness, we've got creepy old buildings everywhere. And meanwhile, one of the most famous horror stories in American culture has a direct highway straight through St. Louis.

speaker-1: Tourism board needs to get on it.

speaker-0: Explore St. Louis. Come for the Toast Gravioli, stay because the demon won't let you leave.

speaker-1: That on a billboard on seventy.

speaker-0: And of course, the skeptics' version of this matters too. Researchers who've looked at this case have offered other explanations. Maybe Robbie was a troubled teenager. Maybe adults around him unintentionally reinforced the behavior. Maybe newspaper accounts inflated it. Maybe the family genuinely believed something supernatural was happening and interpreted normal or explainable events through that lens. There is no scientific way for us, more than 75 years later, To prove a demon possessed this kid.

speaker-1: Probably not.

speaker-0: But that's what makes it a great story. Because you can come away believing three completely different things. One, this was real demonic possession. Two, this was a psychologically troubled kid surrounded by adults who believed in possession. Or three, something strange happened that none of us have enough evidence to fully explain.

speaker-1: I'm probably number three.

speaker-0: That's probably where I land too. And that's where I land with most ghost shit now. When I was a kid, all real. Ghosts, aliens, Bigfoot, Chupacabra. You could have told me Dracula lived behind the Crestwood Mall, and I'd be like, yeah, I've heard that.

speaker-1: You'd stay away from Sears.

speaker-0: Absolutely. Now I'm more skeptical. But sometimes you get one of these stories where enough people saw enough weird things that I'm not comfortable saying nothing happened. Something happened. What? I don't know. And that takes us back to last Halloween. Because almost exactly a year ago, we did our other great St. Louis haunted story, the Lemp Mansion.

speaker-1: Death House.

speaker-0: The Death House. We had the Beer Dynasty, the limestone caves, multiple family tragedies. William Lemp, Billy Lemp, Elsa, Charles, the Lavender Lady, the supposed kid in the attic, the piano, the lights, the doors, all the ghost stories. And somewhere in the middle of it, we came up with what I think is still the best skeptical explanation for half of all hauntings. Old houses do old house things. They creak, pipes bang, lights flicker, vents pop, doors move, and drunk people staying overnight at a haunted hotel hear all of that and go, William Lemp is touching my feet.

speaker-1: And then the hotel charges another hundred bucks.

speaker-0: But after researching the Exorcist story, I'll tell you what, the Lemp story is still crazy. But the Exorcism is almost creepier to me because it isn't built around some giant mansion. It moves through ordinary St. Louis places, a suburban house, a church, a hospital, a retreat center, places where people were just living their lives.

speaker-1: And supposedly this shit is happening in the middle of it.

speaker-0: Right. And I also love that one year later we're sitting here doing another Halloween episode. Because when we started NFNP, I don't think there was some giant five year media strategy.

speaker-1: There still isn't.

speaker-0: That's true. Let's not pretend.

speaker-1: We're winging.

speaker-0: But we have officially made it through a full calendar year. We've done Halloween twice, which is cool. And Halloween is a big one at my house this year. Friday night is the annual Halloween party.

speaker-1: Here we go.

speaker-0: And then Saturday is Halloween. Saturday Halloween. And we don't get another Saturday Halloween for 11 years.

speaker-1: That seems ridiculous.

speaker-0: It does, but we're taking advantage. Family costume this year? Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Obviously. Of course

speaker-1: Your angel? Of course.

speaker-0: you are. Kat is Buffy, Frankie is Oz as the Werewolf, and Caroline is Sexy Giles.

speaker-1: I'm sorry, sexy Giles?

speaker-0: That's apparently where we've landed. Watcher, librarian, tweed, glasses, but Halloween.

speaker-1: Sexy British librarian.

speaker-0: Somewhere, Anthony Stewart Head just felt a disturbance in the force.

speaker-1: Wrong franchise.

speaker-0: I know. And we're doing real trick-or-treating Halloween night. Kids out, costumes, candy, probably freezing, probably somebody crying by house six. Frankie will eat three pieces of candy before we reach the end of the street.

speaker-1: And you're walking around dressed like a vampire.

speaker-0: Which, after spending this week researching Catholic exorcisms, maybe not the year to tempt fate.

speaker-1: Bring holy water.

speaker-0: I'll put it in a Stanley Cup. And Saturday also happens to be the final regular season home match for St. Louis City SC. So if you're listening to this and you want your soccer fix, Kev and I will have you covered on City SC Posse. We'll preview that one. Big Halloween Saturday in St. Louis. Costumes, candy, soccer, possession, potentially two different kinds.

speaker-1: Depends how City plays.

speaker-0: And I think that's the perfect place to leave this. Because last year we asked whether Lemp Mansion is actually haunted or whether old houses just do old house things. This year, I'm asking you something harder. What happened to Robbie in 1949? Was it possession? Psychological crisis? A family caught in escalating religious belief? Something else? I don't know. But I do know this. One of the most famous horror stories ever told didn't just come from Hollywood. A huge part of it happened here in St. Louis. And if you're driving past St. Louis University or College Church or through Bel Noor or down South Broadway near where Lexi Yoon brothers once stood, you're driving through pieces of the real story behind The Exorcist.

speaker-1: Happy Halloween.

speaker-0: Happy Halloween! And if your kid asks to use a Ouija board this weekend, just buy them an iPad.

speaker-1: Much safer.

speaker-0: Debatable. Actually, after our AI episode, maybe not.

speaker-1: Ouija board might be safer.

speaker-0: point. Alright, that's it for this Halloween special. If you've got a St. Louis ghost story, if you've stayed at Lemp Mansion, if you've got some weird story from SLU, send it to us. We may do this again next Halloween, assuming we're still doing this stupid podcast.

speaker-1: We're already a year in, too late to quit.

speaker-0: Make sure you follow NFNP everywhere. nfnppod.com, Spotify, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, X. And if you're a City fan, check out City SC Posse for the final regular season home match. Have fun Friday night. Have a safe Halloween Saturday. Check your kids' candy. Don't summon the dead. And most importantly, if something scratches the word hell across your chest, don't call us.

speaker-1: We are absolutely not qualified.

speaker-0: Not even remotely. Call a Jesuit. Happy Halloween.

speaker-1: Happy Halloween.