True Crime Night: Gilley Update, Butcher of Tompkins Square & McDonald’s Monopoly Mafia | NFNP 2x33

Bright: Life of a podcaster, and it's not just the podcasting, it's the producing, the editing, the social media creation, all the things that you gotta do. You have it, you have it easy.

Duds: Yeah, I'm glad I don't do any of that.

Bright: Well, and again, we've talked about it before, for the most part, it's pretty simple these days because AI does so much. it it clips the best spots. It creates the chapters. Although I go in and edit some of that stuff. I mean it doesn't take me more than twenty minutes to edit an entire episode. And part of that is because we're just long form. We hit record and then we we just talk for an hour and a half.

Duds: Makes it easy.

Bright: Makes it easy. Makes it easy. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I did some prepping for this for this week, but not as much as I normally do because I had a busy w week at work.

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: That takes precedent, obviously. I have to work. so I yeah, I didn't have still have my day

Duds: Still have your day job.

Bright: job. so I I got home from work. It was late. The my in laws were here, so chatted with them and I I asked my wife, I'm like, can you give me like half an hour or forty five minutes so that I can go like review what I had prepped. I hadn't actually like read through the full outline and and all of that. so she gave me a little bit of time. She's putting the kids to bed, so I feel a little bit Better for the episode. And I was like, yeah, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, so so be it. But

Duds: Yeah, we can't have two guys on here that are completely unprepared.

Bright: No, I know, right? It wouldn't be much of a not that it is a great podcast as

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: it is, but it'd be even less of one. It's just like we're just watching a hangout session, at least like have we have to have a roadmap. Otherwise that's w all it is, is a hangout session.

Duds: Hundred percent. Yep.

Bright: So yeah, yeah. I mean it could be both. It could be a podcast and a hangout session. I'm okay with that. And I think I've mentioned it before, like I look forward to it. I get a come we hang out, we talk about stupid stuff and we drink beer. So it

Duds: That's right. It's been a couple of weeks.

Bright: Yeah, so tell me about that. So we we split the we recorded two weeks ago and we split that into two episodes, which worked out pretty well. and then last week you were on your your fraternity trip, right? Isn't that yeah? How to go? Any craziness?

Duds: Yeah, annual annual fraternity trip with it was good. you know what? I tell you what, when you hit the forties, things seem to start slowing down a bit. People don't stay up so late, the the crazy drunkenness

Bright: Yeah. Right, right, right.

Duds: isn't a factor as much anymore. I mean people were drinking all day, but by the time, you know, nine, ten, eleven rolled around, everybody's like ready for bed.

Bright: Yeah, yeah. And you know how to you know how to monitor your levels a little bit better, right? You're not you're not practicing

Duds: Yeah, yeah. You had a lot of practice.

Bright: drinking as much. You kinda know when you need to slow it down or

Duds: Right.

Bright: throw in a water in between or eat food or whatever the case may be. So we do we eat very well. That's good.

Duds: Tell you what, we do eat very well. We we split up the food duties, so depending on how many guys go. Well the the guy that kind of runs the whole show, he he puts us into groups and you'll have either a like a breakfast crew will do the breakfast every day because it's usually pretty easy. And then

Bright: Right. Yeah.

Duds: then you'll have a lunch crew and then a dinner crew. And you'll be like usually three guys. Yeah, usually, yeah, usually.

Bright: Well the dinner crew's g gotta be the best food. Yeah. Yeah, usually. Yeah.

Duds: but the I mean the lunch, we had like carnitas, like street tacos for lunch one day. It was pretty good. I mean

Bright: Okay. All right. Yeah.

Duds: one guy was up prepping for probably like, I don't know, five hours before we ate lunch. Yeah, he was he was in the kitchen a long time.

Bright: What? That's crazy. Yeah. Alright, so tell me what days were you down there? I remember you said you floated on Friday, right? Yeah, I went down

Duds: Yeah, went down Thursday. We met up

Bright: Thursday. Right.

Duds: for lunch in Steelville at

Bright: Yeah.

Duds: Mr. Tequila's. had some lunch

Bright: Okay.

Duds: there, then went over to the house. I think we could check in at like two. So got down there, just kinda hung out. We had dinner Thursday night, and then we went floating on Friday. And that was what time we start? Nine o'clock, I think. Nine

Bright: Yeah.

Duds: thirty. And that lasted till probably about four and then

Bright: Yeah, that's how long it should last. Yeah, because

Duds: Yeah, doing some jello shots on the river, you know, that was fun. one of the guys fell out of the the raft. We we had canoes and a couple rafts, you know. And I mean we

Bright: Right, right.

Duds: were probably ten minutes into the float and we hit one area, we're like, hey, we're gonna hit we're gonna hit that log, we're gonna hit that log. And and this is a bigger guy. His name's Guy, actually, is is what his name is too. And he was

Bright: Yeah.

Duds: sitting on the front of the raft and man, we hit this thing going pretty good. And I mean I flew into the the floor of the raft and he flew

Bright: Right.

Duds: we had two rafts kind of tied together. He flew right out of

Bright: Yeah.

Duds: the side and I think he actually smacked his face like on the log underwater. He was upside down for a while. We were like looking around for

Bright: no.

Duds: him, making sure he was going to come back up. he did and he was all bloody on around his eye. But he he

Bright: No, I said.

Duds: was alright. He he shook it off, you know, did a couple more shots and yeah.

Bright: Yeah. man. You're out of practice.

Duds: We had the one guy brought a DeWalt drill with a propeller shaft on it so we could put it behind

Bright: Yeah.

Duds: the raft and actually drive the raft with the propeller with the drill. He brought five.

Bright: Right. Did it work?

Duds: yeah, it actually worked until it broke. we made it probably about halfway, maybe four miles, and then and then the shaft broke or something, and that kind of sucked. So we had to start paddling a little bit after that. But it was working really well.

Bright: man. Right, right.

Duds: Once you get going, I mean it would push you you'd you'd pass up the canoeers.

Bright: Yeah, and the river wasn't too shallow or anything like that. There's a couple spots that were a little bit of, you know, you're thinking. And you had a good temperature, it was freaking hot. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Duds: There was a couple of spots that were a little bit shallow, but you know, you're you're gonna have that. And yeah, it was hot and the water felt great. So there was some some areas where w I just hopped out. We got one of the like square

Bright: Course. Yeah.

Duds: life raft things, you know, and just kinda floated

Bright: Mm-hmm.

Duds: down the river while the raft was w right by us, so

Bright: Right.

Duds: that was fun.

Bright: Right. Nice. And then when'd you come home? Saturday or Sunday. Sunday. Okay.

Duds: Sunday, yeah. So yeah, we floated Friday, you know, went back. I haven't made food on Friday night. I was on that dinner crew. I made some

Bright: Right. Right.

Duds: bratwursts, split these bratwursts, cut some jalapeno peppers, shoved a bunch of cream cheese in there, then wrapped them in bacon and grilled it. It was pretty good.

Bright: Yeah. yeah yeah. The only thing when you're wrapping anything with bacon is can you how do you make sure that the underside of the bacon gets fully cooked? Sometimes that's really.

Duds: Well he actually turned them. He actually flipped them on the grill, the guy that was cooking Yeah, I just I I prepared them all and we had a guy that was working

Bright: Yeah.

Duds: the grill. And he was able to he he started them slow, like lower heat, you know, to to cook the bratwurst good. And then then he turned

Bright: Right. Yeah.

Duds: the heat up a little bit on it, or added more charcoal, got got it hotter, and then it was actually crisping up the bacon. 'Cause the bacon was still kind of soft, you know, we wanted to get it crispy. Right. But

Bright: Right. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, that's that's what you worry about. Yeah. Yeah.

Duds: You know, he flipped it, some of the cream cheese came out, but most of it stayed in. They still turned out really good.

Bright: That's all right. Yeah.

Duds: And then Saturday we just kinda hung out. We went back down to the river 'cause this property is backs up right to a river, so it's like a

Bright: Right.

Duds: quarter mile drive down this private road. And then

Bright: Yeah. Yeah.

Duds: we just popped chairs into the river, hung out there for most of the day, went back up. Yeah.

Bright: That's what I like to do. Yeah. That's like when we talk about like mineral fork, right? Just put the chairs down, drink some beer, hang out, right, toss the frisbee or something, but yeah. No, it's the best.

Duds: Mm-hmm. Can't beat it. Yeah, it was fun. We went back up and played played some yard games. one

Bright: Yeah.

Duds: of my buddies brought this game called Lawn Dye. Have you ever heard of this? It's kind of

Bright: I don't think so.

Duds: a mix it's it reminds me a lot of beardye, the game beard die if you ever played that. but

Bright: Right. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

Duds: it's it's like a board, kind of looks like a cornhole board, but it's it's like

Bright: Uh-huh.

Duds: concave like this. It's got one

Bright: Okay.

Duds: one hole in the middle. And then you use these rubber big dice that are like this big. And

Bright: Yeah.

Duds: you you throw them and they kinda bounce. They hit the board and they'll bounce. And you're supposed to catch

Bright: Right.

Duds: it before it hits the ground. And yeah, if it hits it

Bright: Right, just like beer dye, yeah.

Duds: if it hits the board and hits the ground, the other team gets a point. And if you get it in the hole, it's a three pointer. And you play to eleven.

Bright: Mm-hmm.

Duds: So it's a it's a fun game. Yeah, we had a lot of fun playing that.

Bright: Yeah, nice. Yeah.

Duds: And then had some football, you know, watched some football on TV and just kinda hung out. Reminisced about the good old days.

Bright: Yeah. Th yeah, of course you gotta do that. Yeah. Well do you would did you watch the Mizzou game? Because that didn't end up being like the best game. it was Yeah. Yeah, they

Duds: Yeah, they had Mizoo game on. Yeah. I didn't watch much, but they had a couple games on.

Bright: they barely squeaked that one out. of course there was the city game. I'm guessing you didn't watch that. No,

Duds: We didn't have that on.

Bright: I didn't have that on. tell ya. Well it sounds like a good time and and your wife did okay with the kids. You guys have traded off a couple it sounds

Duds: yeah.

Bright: like girls' weekends and and guys' weekends and and the like, yeah. Right, right, right, right, right.

Duds: Yeah, she had hers a few weeks ago, so it's good that she does hers first, you know.

Bright: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Well nice. Good. Yeah. I'm I'm envious 'cause now I'm you guys timed it perfectly because now it's cooled down significantly.

Duds: Right.

Bright: I've I had to go b I put on long pants, right? It was like, all right, it's cold in the house. I gotta gotta warm up a little bit.

Duds: We should set up just like a a guy's trip an FNP guys trip. It'd be fun.

Bright: Well for Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, yeah, if you can actually get the other guys to come along, it's just us and

Duds: That's the problem.

Bright: yeah, right. That is the problem. So yeah, we sh we should do we should be able to get something together eventually like that, for sure. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. It's easy enough.

Duds: You would think. I mean even if it was just like a Saturday to Sunday kind of thing. Go Friday night. Yeah.

Bright: Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Cool, cool, cool. Glad to have fun. Now back to reality, right? Yeah.

Duds: Yeah, no, you get back and work sucks and you're like, Yeah, I'm ready to retire.

Bright: Yep. Well my transition here is you know who else might be coming back to reality? Lee Gilly. Yeah, yeah.

Duds: yeah, you can bring that up?

Bright: Call back to a prior episode, right? it was episode twenty one maybe of season two?

Duds: So did you did you look into this or did you just happen to see it or have you been following the story?

Bright: No, it yeah, it just happened to just happened to pop up on the news and I'm like, I know this case.

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: Like we we talked to Ken Good, if you remember. He was the bail bondsman down in Texas and we were talking about this Lee Gilly case. So I thought we could do well first off, I'm gonna preface this. This is gonna be a true crime episode.

Duds: Okay.

Bright: I know. I've got like three different cases and they're more or less all some type of true crime. And they're all relevant. So I'm not just going back and pulling some crazy story out of nothing. these are all things that are relevant. So I thought we'd run through the three. We'll see we'll see how long that takes.

Duds: Can't be a show about nothing.

Bright: Can't be a show about nothing, right? I think even our pilot was called a show about something, maybe,

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: right? Like we're not quite sure all the time, but but yeah. So a couple of like callback things, right? Just just so you can kind of remember who this guy was and what happened. So Lee Gilly, he's charged with capital murder for the October twenty twenty four death of his wife, Krista Gilly, who was thirty eight and about eight weeks pregnant at the time. Remember that? I think it was around the same age, if I recall. I don't have it right in front

Duds: How old is he? Did you say? Okay. So late thirties?

Bright: of me, but Yeah, late thirties, may maybe a couple of years older or something like that, but I think they were around the same age. the Houston didn't have any other kids. They did. They had two other two

Duds: And they didn't have any other kids, right? they did.

Bright: other kids. So this was their third. And so that's another big thing is like the custody situation that that is happening right now between Lee's parents and Krista's parents, it's a whole big thing. We won't necessarily get into that, but we did talk a little bit about that in episode twenty one with Ken Good. But they ad the police initially responded to the report of a possible suicide or overdose, but then the medical ex examiner ruled that it was homicide by compression of the neck. So they arrested Gilly and he pleaded not guilty. And then this was the whole part of the episode is he was released on one million dollars bond with GPS monitoring. He also had to surrender his passport. Yet somehow he made it to Italy. Right. Right? So Yes. Correct. Had

Duds: Right. Cut off the ankle monitor, fled the country, skipped his bail.

Bright: Right. Remember he grew out a beard, kinda like what you're sporting right now. He was clean shaven and then j and people were noticing his appearance was changing, which he was doing on

Duds: What are you growing that beard for?

Bright: purpose. Right, exactly. And then on Friday, this was the whole thing, so it was pretty calculated. He waited until Friday evening to cut off the ankle monitor, and nobody noticed really until Monday morning. And at that point he was already in Italy. And so he kinda almost like he knew the system a bit,

Duds: Drinking wine and eating pasta.

Bright: right? Yes. Exactly, for sure. so he cut off his an ankle monitor. It did generate a tamper alert, but nobody was paying attention.

Duds: Did we say was Italy that's an extradition country, right though? You can why would you go there?

Bright: Yes, yes. And so we'll get to that. So that's That's part of the whole thing, right? So he had a sixty hour head start. He had all the fake paperwork that he somehow was able to procure. He went through Canada and then flew to Italy where he was immediately arrested. So he never got to the wine and pasta phase of

Duds: Mm-hmm. fail.

Bright: of his stay. They they knew right off the bat that something something didn't seem right. But the whole thing is that Italy

Duds: Canada didn't care though. They didn't know.

Bright: Canada led right through, in and out, could care less. but the whole thing is that Italy does not believe in the death penalty. And of course Texas does. Yeah, we n we know that much. So did Ron White have I'm sure he did. I don't remember.

Duds: Yeah, didn't Ron White have a bit about that? Remember that? Said yeah, Texas what w what was it? It was something about how yeah, most people some states are trying to abolish the death penalty and Texas is putting in a what was it, a speed line or a express lane or express line.

Bright: Yeah, right. Express lane. Yeah, yeah. They want to bring back public hangings and firing squads and all of that, right? no, so it may have been calculated. Like he may have gone to Italy on purpose. Now, if they didn't catch him, maybe he would have just gone about his thing, but if they caught him, he knew that they wouldn't just extradite him back, knowing that death the death penalty was on the table. So

Duds: So they wouldn't give they wouldn't bring him back here because like Italy wouldn't release him because of that?

Bright: Correct, because they don't believe in the death penalty. They also don't believe

Duds: Yeah, but why would they care? It's an American.

Bright: that Americans 'cause th as a human rights.

Duds: You just need to butt out. Just butt out, Italy.

Bright: They also don't bel believe in in life without the possibility of parole. So that's a whole nother thing. So basically the Texas prosecutor, the reason it's back in the news is he came out and said they will no longer seek the death penalty. And this is in an attempt to have Italy release him and extradite him back to the US. So

Duds: But then once it comes back be like, just kidding. We can do whatever we want over here.

Bright: Well, and that's my wife said the same thing and I was like, I guess technically you maybe could do that, right? Like we could do whatever we want. We're now that

Duds: That's second thought. Now that we got him, we're gonna do it.

Bright: we got we're America, right? And Texas. They can do whatever they want. But it probably wouldn't look good professionally for the prosecutor, relationships with Italy, like who knows. Right,

Duds: Well yeah, for future ones, you know.

Bright: right. Exactly. Yeah, they might not extradite anybody.

Duds: International relations, whatever.

Bright: Sure, sure. Right. So so the I mean the thing is is like did this did this work? Right? Like he there's first off, there's no guarantee that Italy's gonna extradite him back. He is in an Italian jail and they do have a hearing set for sometime in October. But if he does come back and he has to go to trial, presumably he will, he's not gonna get the death penalty. He's gonna live out his days in a I don't know. Of easy prison. I don't there's probably no easy prisons in Texas, but I was I was gonna say that's what I was gonna

Duds: What was the federal federal pound maniac prison?

Bright: say, but I didn't do it. Th that's why I paused. I was like, I don't know maybe if I should say this or not. But yeah, from office space.

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is a hundred percent where my my mind

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: went. It's and I love that we're on the same page. So

Duds: Well when I think of federal prison, that's what I usually think of.

Bright: Yes, for sure. A hundred percent. Yep, yep, yep. So I don't know. So yeah, does it bother you that one, he was able to flee and that this other country's laws more or less or are superseding ours, at least for the time being. That's annoying, right?

Duds: Yeah, it seems kind of strange. I don't know why they why Italy would even care. They'd just be like, hey, this guy he's not supposed to be here. We're gonna send him back. I feel like that's how it should

Bright: Yeah.

Duds: work at at the borders, you know. Hey, this guy, don't let it don't

Bright: Yeah.

Duds: even let him in your country. Just like, hey, we caught this guy, America. Come get him. Like I don't know how that

Bright: Can they just send them back? They they probably have to have somebody from Interpol. They can't just send them back, right? He can't just be on seat twenty one C like Right.

Duds: Right. Yeah, it can't be easy. Right. Sure. It's probably gotta sp spend millions of dollars, I'm sure, you know.

Bright: Exactly. Yeah, it's a big pain in the butt logistically, man. I tell ya.

Duds: When it shouldn't just be easy, right?

Bright: Yeah. Well, you know, and of course you think about Krista's family too, you know, they they want resolution, obviously, to this. They wanna see him face trial and and and everything and I'm sure there were several of that wanted the death penalty and now they already feel like they're losing. Probably a couple of times. Obviously family member gets murdered, not good. Husband gets arrested, not good. Then husband flees, not good. And now death penalty's off the table. Not they're 0 for four. They're batting 0 for four.

Duds: Right. I mean that and I mean all this points to you look really guilty doing all that too.

Bright: Well, so that that is what a lot of people are saying is like he comes back and he does have to face trial and and jury and all of that. It's like people are automatically gonna assume guilt. Now he's still saying that he's not guilty other than fleeing, you like breaking his his promise and and all of that. but he's he blames it on kangaroo court and that not getting a fair shake, essentially. And so he's No, but

Duds: But he hadn't even gone yet, right? Having really gone to court. Yeah. I don't know. Innocent innocent people probably are running like that,

Bright: Yeah, it is it is what it is, I guess. If you're if you are actually innocent

Duds: but who knows?

Bright: Well, that's the thing. If you really think you're innocent, then you're like, well prove it in court. Like I'm innocent. I'll be able to prove it in court, right? Of course Right. You're

Duds: Well you don't have to prove your innocence. They have to prove you're guilty. So

Bright: cor correct in theory, I guess, but in theory. Yeah.

Duds: In theory. But if you're making yourself look guilty, it's gonna be much easier, I think.

Bright: Right, right, for sure. Yeah. That's if we ever get sent back. What do you think the odds are? Give me give me odds.

Duds: Mm. I think he'll I think they'll send him back. I'd say seventy percent chance. I think so.

Bright: Seventy percent chance that they send him back. I th I think that's probably I bet I was gonna go like eighty, eighty

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: five percent chance that they send him back. They don't want

Duds: What do you think though, like if you were being tried, would you and you had to face either life in prison with no parole or the death penalty? I mean, which one do you want? Because neither of those are good, but life in prison with no parole? That's no way to live, right?

Bright: I mean I think I'd s I think I I think I'd still rather have that. I mean that that's probably better than dying. But

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: like if imagine though if if things aren't very good for you in prison. I'm not that they're

Duds: Right.

Bright: good for anybody, but if you're on like the low end of the totem pole of the prison hierarchy, right. Then then it it might change your opinion a little bit.

Duds: Right. Which I don't think he's gonna be very high up on the totem pole.

Bright: Yeah, you know. I I guess it depends. Like are you a scrawny guy? Are you are you a

Duds: You good looking?

Bright: fe female looking guy, right? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I don't I don't know how to put it. Yeah.

Duds: Got a pretty face. Got a pretty mouth.

Bright: Exactly, right? So I guess it depends, right? Can I I mean yeah, that's

Duds: I mean that could be worse than death, I think. So

Bright: the thing. It could be depending on the situation and and you are a I guess the prison system and they have to have some responsibility. They don't want I understand things happen, but they can't just let things happen forever, right? So yeah, you might get beat up or

Duds: I don't know, I've seen a lot of T V shows where they just kinda they're all corrupt and they just let it happen.

Bright: Yeah, but that's T V shows. I th this c can't all be can't all be accurate. I don't know.

Duds: You've seen Sons of Anarchy, haven't you?

Bright: Yeah. Sh I tell ya. Yeah, yeah. Well that

Duds: Everybody's corrupt, all the police, all the prison system.

Bright: but that's the thing. Now in prison everybody's got cell phones supposedly and T they're watching TV and working out, right?

Duds: Playing video games. It looks great.

Bright: Isn't that Yeah, isn't that what they always I bet you they get the new GTA six, like day one. They probably already have

Duds: They probably already have it. They got early release.

Bright: it, exactly. They g yeah Yeah, well isn't that what they always say though, like, you go to jail, like I'm gonna get ripped. That's w that's right. What else do you do other than work out, right? Yeah.

Duds: Work out, play video games, hang out with your buddies.

Bright: Right. It could be worse, I guess. I don't know. I I would I would take that over death, I would.

Duds: Sure. I mean, that's pretty,

Bright: Yeah.

Duds: you know, definite what's gonna happen there. Plus the worst thing about that is like

Bright: Yes, for sure, for sure. And

Duds: you're on death row and like, you know, you have this you're

Bright: For a long time.

Duds: on there for a long time and you have a date that just keeps approaching and you keep going towards it. That's probably the worst thing is this psychological torture.

Bright: Right, right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. The only thing would be the last meal.

Duds: Yeah. What would you have?

Bright: Like I mean that's that's the million dollar question, right? Like I feel

Duds: Toasted raviolis.

Bright: I feel like I would have to go like schmorgis board. Right? Bring

Duds: Just bring me everything.

Bright: me everything. Like, yeah. Like I'd have to I'd be like, I need at least a slice or two of pepperoni pizza. maybe

Duds: Like from where though? Like you're not getting dominoes, right?

Bright: Like I a double wear it though. Yeah. Not necessarily, no. I I don't know. It probably wouldn't matter too much. just Exactly. Right. Well but see,

Duds: I know how good could it taste? Do you know you're gonna die? Like does it really matter?

Bright: not everybody knows when their last meal is gonna be. So this

Duds: really?

Bright: is a situation when you're well, I mean, you could die tomorrow. You don't know that it's gonna be your last meal when you have it. Like to

Duds: okay. I thought you meant on death row they just give it to you randomly.

Bright: No, on n no, no, no, no. But like tonight I had a terrible dinner. I had a leftover hamburger patty that was like one of the small ones that I had for the kids that that was left over, and I had two leftover McDonald's chicken nuggets. That was my dinner on keto bread nonetheless with with no sugar ketchup and light mayonnaise.

Duds: Yeah, you don't want to die tonight. That'd be a horrible ass male.

Bright: No. Like that was not that'd be a horrible last meal. It was not good. It was not great. yeah, but it would have to have pepperoni pizza, double cheeseburger, maybe well definitely like dessert, like gooey butter cake or cheesecake, maybe. Like a really good cheesecake. Is there

Duds: Mm. Maybe German chocolate cake.

Bright: chocolate cake that that is one of my favorites? German chocolate cake is one of my fit with my mom. It's either carrot cake or German chocolate cake for my birthday.

Duds: I think I'd probably just go traditional,

Bright: one of those two.

Duds: like a really great, you know, filet mignon, you know, or a

Bright: Steak. Yeah.

Duds: a bone in ribeye. Just give me that big tomahawk,

Bright: Yeah.

Duds: one of those dry aged, you know, for three hundred

Bright: Hm.

Duds: days.

Bright: Yeah, I don't know. I think I think I would go more simple. I think maybe I I think that's what I I got it. All right. Two pieces of pepperoni pizza, one double cheeseburger, a pound of spicy chicken wings with cheesecake

Duds: Yes.

Bright: or or something, or really good gooey yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think that's probably what I would do.

Duds: Going straight bar food. Bucket of beer.

Bright: I don't know if they would give you beer or not, but yeah, like six six ice cold bottles bottled beers.

Duds: they have to give you beer, I'd just give me like, you know, give me thirty or forty beers. I don't even care about the food.

Bright: well that can't get you too liquored up before you head to the chair. You might survive. Well, I don't you know.

Duds: You think? Do they even do the chair anymore?

Bright: no, I don't think so. I don't know. But

Duds: They should. That's like a

Bright: alcohol does weird things to your body. You know, sometimes like people that are all drunk are the ones that survive car accidents and

Duds: Makes you stronger, yeah.

Bright: stuff, right? It it makes you stronger, damn right.

Duds: Ha ha ha.

Bright: All right. All right, so you'd go traditional steak, you kinda said, right? So it taste the best, right? Yeah, yeah.

Duds: I mean it tastes the best, right? I'm trying to think of

Bright: What about

Duds: like I really like steak and shake hamburgers, but is

Bright: Yeah.

Duds: it like the you last meal worthy? I don't know. I mean it's pretty good. Are you just trying to get full or are you

Bright: Right, right. Yeah.

Duds: just going for like the flavor? 'Cause I don't feel like you're gonna be that hungry. Like you're you know you're gonna die. So it's like maybe you just go maybe you just go desserts, you know? Give me some ice cream. Give me some candy.

Bright: No, yeah, yeah. No, it wouldn't be it'd be just gonna Yeah. Yeah, you don't have to worry about the calories, that's for sure, right? Yeah. How am I gonna work this off tomorrow?

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: But you know what happens after you die, right? Like you don't wanna make too big of a mess, do you?

Duds: I don't think you care, do you?

Bright: I don't know. Still I don't know. So final thing under if it's something somebody else put the

Duds: That's your that's your final thing on earth is letting somebody else clean all that crap up.

Bright: ones. Yeah I guess so. That's a good point. Screw you, right? Screw you, system. Ugh All right. All right, you ready for case number two? This one is interesting too.

Duds: Okay, let's hear it. What are you drinking there, by the way?

Bright: All right. I went back to the bright vibes.

Duds: Mm.

Bright: It's three weeks in a row, I think. I was like I I've only been drinking on podcast night. Yeah. So I know.

Duds: You have to. They're the sponsor. They're unofficial sponsor.

Bright: whether they like it or not.

Duds: Whether they like it or not.

Bright: That's right. Four hands, bright vibes. And soon to come dud suds. That's right. Yes.

Duds: That's right. Just hint, hint. Come on, four hands. Get on that.

Bright: Well, hopefully. One of these days. so I think I sent it in the group chat and I don't know that anybody even responded because I said it late in late in the evening. but have you seen this thing with Sonny Hostin from the View? Do you know who she is? Or y I mean, she's on the View. That's right.

Duds: yeah, I know who she is, but I don't know if I remember what this was. Yeah, she's a nutso.

Bright: So yeah, she she's a little nutso. Well they were, I guess, debating the Lindsey Clancy case,

Duds: Mm-hmm.

Bright: which we haven't talked about on the podcast. maybe for remember what

Duds: I think I do r remember what you sent here, yeah.

Bright: you said here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So but the

Duds: This the one where it was like they were upset about or thinking why did he leave her?

Bright: No. So that was the other person, which is crazy. I don't even know who the other person is. But

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: yeah, she sh the other person, not Sonny, came out and one of the the white gals on the show and said not Joy Behar, not Whoopi Goldberg, not Sonny Hostin. I think those are the only three I know. So

Duds: Can't believe you know all.

Bright: of only because of Fox News or Greg Gutfeld or something like that. But So the one of the white ladies said that she couldn't believe that the husband, like, filed for divorce right away. And like, what happened

Duds: Yeah. Can't believe that.

Bright: to death do us parts and sickness and health? I'm like, what are you talking about? You crazy you know what? Like, of course of course he filed for divorce.

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: He killed their three kids. How why would anybody say that? Allegedly. Yeah. Ay.

Duds: Allegedly. Yeah, it's kind of dumb, right?

Bright: Yeah, well, it it's pretty dumb. I don't know why you I mean, if if a man killed the kids, I mean th the wife isn't sticking that out either. Nobody should. Nobody should. Of course it is. Right. I mean death do us part, okay. Assuming you're not a murderer.

Duds: Well nobody should. I mean that's just a silly thing to say. I on both accounts like even if you even if you believed even if you believed that he so it it was one of two things, right? Either she did it or some people are like, Well he set her up and he did it.

Bright: I think they've been able to prove that that did not happen. Yeah.

Duds: Right. So but even if you did believe that, well then he's still not gonna stay with her. Like so there's no yeah, there's no like scenario where that plays out. So it's just a stupid thing to say.

Bright: Right, sure. Then he's the crazy one. Scenario where they're no. No. It was dumb, yes. But no. So I wanted to talk about something else that was all I also found it dumb, but it was interesting nonetheless. Is that Sonny Hostin said that she was a holdout juror, much like this juror on the Lindsay Clancy case. And what's interesting about the Lindsey Clancy case, of course, th it was eleven jurors that wanted to find her not guilty by reason of insanity, I presume. And one juror was like, No, F that. She killed her three kids. She's guilty. Right? And so then it it came out that it was a black man and I don't know that the liberals knew exactly what to do with that, right? 'Cause they were like, How do

Duds: Well they just they stopped they stopped criticizing him at that point.

Bright: Pretty much, yeah, pretty much. So Sonny came out and she said she sympathizes with this guy, I guess, because she was the lone holdout juror in a pretty famous case.

Duds: Really?

Bright: Yes. And so that's what I wanted to talk about, which one, like, how have you not brought this up before? Like, this this is a a famous th n he's not a serial killer, but

Duds: Was it OJ?

Bright: no. So it was Daniel Rakowitz, otherwise known as the Butcher of Tompkins Square Park. Yes.

Duds: Okay. I've never heard of it.

Bright: Yeah. Well it was just a one time murder, but it all involved like cannibalism. That's right, you heard it. You

Duds: That's why they called him the butcher?

Bright: heard it like that. Cannibalism. I feel like I could say it better. Cannibalism. I don't know.

Duds: I mean it must be bad if he'd killed one person and he got labelled the butcher.

Bright: Right, right, yes. The butcher of Tom S Tompkins Square Park. Yeah, so I'm gonna go into the details. But I wanna talk before I go into the details of the case, Sonny Hasen, there's some interesting things here. So she came out, she said she's this lone holdout juror and she d did not think that he was guilty by reason of insanity, that he didn't know what he was doing, and when you get in when you hear everything, you're pff and but that he panicked and tried to cover up the murder and basically he was never in right frame of mind and therefore

Duds: Okay.

Bright: he you're right. And that everybody else thought he should be found guilty of murder, and that she slowly, one by one, convinced them all to side with her. And that it

Duds: Really, she flipped everybody.

Bright: That's what she said. And she said that at one point somebody threw a chair at her. They were sequestered for nine days, so it took nine days to reach a verdict. But they did eventually come back with a verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity. So it it went from eleven to one to twelve and I guess, essentially. So I was getting this all ready to go this morning in the short window that I had before I had to go to my work event. And then the news broke. that mm that might not be the actual story. Yeah. Yeah, I know, right? So so the question is is like, is she is she

Duds: Yeah, that doesn't surprise me that she's lying. Sounded a little fishy as you were explaining it.

Bright: misremembering like what's going on? So she was a juror on the case, which already is like like, okay, crazy.

Duds: She was just an alternate. She never actually got a vote.

Bright: Right. No, no. She was she was a juror on the case, but she did an interview, I guess, after the fact, and she said to one of the the news publications he knew what he was doing. So that right off the bat kind of discredits the fact that she thought that he was

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: so that's strange. The other thing is is that the the publications say that it was an unemployed male that was the holdout juror. There is one publication that says that there was that unemployed male as the holdout juror and one other person as the holdout juror. But now this

Duds: So there's couple.

Bright: was Yeah, yeah. So that not one loan, but possibly

Duds: Details are a little fuzzy.

Bright: more. And again, this happened 35 years ago, so it's like, is she misremembering? Maybe she originally thought that he was guilty, and then she defected to go with the holdout juror, and then she concocted the story where it was her like Right, right, exactly. But so th things are starting to contradict that. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. No surprise there. So

Duds: She was the hero, yeah. Hmm. So surprising that it's all about her. Yeah. Make it about you.

Bright: yeah. So we'll have to see how that story progresses. 'cause now people are digging into it. Like, be careful when you bring stuff like this up 'cause people will go find like The internet is a crazy thing. Right. So

Duds: No, it's all out there. Forever.

Bright: once people are looking, they're gonna find it. And if you were

Duds: Pretty crazy.

Bright: not the holdout juror, you're gonna be discredited and made fun of and it ain't it ain't great. Ain't great. Yeah.

Duds: And nothing's gonna happen to her regardless. So

Bright: Well, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So if you don't know anything about this case, it's pretty wild. And I have heard this before. I'm pretty sure the last podcast on the left, which is a podcast I used to listen to a lot, not as much anymore. and I got their book over here too. The last book on the left. But they do a lot of like serial killer stuff and and so they

Duds: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think you were telling me about that.

Bright: Yeah, they did all the big hitters, of course, Bundy and And and all all of those guys,

Duds: Manson.

Bright: Wayne, Gacy, Manson, yeah, yeah. So eventually they had to start going to some of these lesser known serial killers or infamous killers we'll call this guy. If you get a name, you're an infamous murderer, right? Even though he's not a serial killer. Right, he's the butcher of Tompkins Square. If

Duds: What do mean? If you get a name? yeah. Right.

Bright: you're if you're assigned a name like that, like that's serial killer level. Right. Even though

Duds: Yeah, you gotta Definitely. Yeah, if you little little

Bright: he only murdered one person, so he doesn't qualify as a serial killer.

Duds: Definitely like an infamous person though. For sure.

Bright: Yes, correct. Yeah. All right. So let's let's get into the the case. This won't take too long, but I got I got some information here. So he murdered a twenty-six year old Swiss national named Monica Beerley, maybe? I'm not sure how you pronounce her last name. Burl. Burley. but Monica, we'll go with Monica. she was a full time student. for the School of Contemporary Dance, Martha Graham. She was taken eight to fifteen classes per week. She performed in student productions. she was committed, gifted, and deeply talented. however, I have seen some reporting that she also worked as an exotic dancer at Billy's Topless.

Duds: Mm.

Bright: Don't know if that's relevant to the case, but anyhow.

Duds: How did he know her?

Bright: So it doesn't really say how they met or how they knew each other. but the early report said that they were an item at one point. that they were boyfriend, girlfriend, and that he moved into her apartment. Okay.

Duds: Okay.

Bright: But others later described it more as a roommate situation. So maybe it started out as significant other, and then transitioned into just Plutonic roommate. But that's where things kinda escalated. Eventually she wanted him gone.

Duds: Mm-hmm.

Bright: So whether it was as a result of them breaking up or or maybe she realized this guy's a nut job, she wanted him out

Duds: Guy seems like a butcher.

Bright: of the apartment. Yes. So that's what sparked the whole thing. So on August nineteenth, nineteen

Duds: Look at the head on that beer.

Bright: eighty nine, that might be a little too much

Duds: Too much head? You can never have too head.

Bright: Yeah. Is the fridge a little too warm?

Duds: You know, I had to turn it up a little bit 'cause it was frosting over. It's it's it's at forty four degrees, so it's a little it's a little warm, but it's cold enough.

Bright: Mm. Well that's way too warm. Yeah. Way too warm for beer. I keep mine at thirty. Yeah.

Duds: I had it I had it lower but it kept frosting up in the back and I just didn't want to deal with that, so

Bright: Yeah, yeah, it's annoying. I know. I hear ya. So yeah, August nineteenth, nineteen eighty nine, they have an an argument about him leaving the apartment, and that's what led to him murdering her. it started as a violent assault, so possible blows or one blow or multiple blows to the head and to the throat, followed by a stabbing. And and she was done so. But What happened next is why he became infamous. So he dismembered her body in the bathtub.

Duds: Mm.

Bright: Start with that. Boiled her b her body parts in a pot on the stove. Removed flesh from her bones, flushed some of the flesh down the toilet. And let's see, what else?

Duds: Just nasty dude. How do you do that?

Bright: Yeah. Not good. Not good. So then the remains. The remains were some of the remains anyway were recovered in a five gallon bucket. So the skull, some bones.

Duds: Reminds me of breaking bad. Remember that?

Bright: I know, right? When they're melting the guy in the bathtub. Yeah. Yeah.

Duds: Mm-hmm.

Bright: It's like one of the it's ble that's like episode two, which

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: is crazy, right? It's episode two. the fifteen inch murder weapon, which was a carving knife. along with cat litter and a green lid. I don't know. So the bucket was stored at the Port Authority bus terminal baggage room, and it was Rakowitz himself that led investigators to it. So he eventually got caught and

Duds: Okay.

Bright: said, Hey, this is where it goes. But again, it gets a little bit crazier. So we know that he boiled her body. But witnesses have testified that Rakowitz was serving soup to homeless men in Tompkins Square Park with what

Duds: gross.

Bright: appeared to be human fingers in the soup.

Duds: Right.

Bright: Yeah. So that's where he got the name and why the case became infamous. Not only did he boil off her body, but then he turned it into a soup and served it to the, as Sonny Houston put it, unhoused.

Duds: Feed the people.

Bright: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know. It hasn't, I guess, been a hundred percent confirmed.

Duds: Dude, that's so gross.

Bright: Yeah, I know. But witnesses again, they testified to it, they saw it. it it's been saying that l later stories anyway say that he ate her brain, that he enjoyed the taste, that he fed numerous body parts to people beyond just the soup. so those again, those are only claims per se, but

Duds: Here's my thing. It's like obviously this guy was insane. I mean, you'd have to do to be to do something along those lines, right? That's not what a normal person does. But it doesn't matter, like, if you're insane or not, you still did it.

Bright: Yeah. It doesn't matter. That's my thought process. And right. I mean unless unless

Duds: How can you be not guilty by reason of insanity? But you still did it.

Bright: And and what I hate is the temporary the temporary insanity is is way off. Now, if this guy is legitimately nut job, medical conditions, all of those things, maybe he just never got diagnosed. I don't know. That that's something, I guess, but but right, anybody that that kills anybody and then tries to dispose like you could always say like, temporary insanity or I I hit her and I stabbed her. I didn't mean her to and then I went nuts.

Duds: You know, I could almost think it Right. And if that person did that and was like, my gosh, what did I do? Then they called the police and like reported it themselves and be like, I don't know what happened, it just, you know, I did this. Well, that would be

Bright: Right.

Duds: one thing. You could see like temporary like a moment of i insanity or whatever.

Bright: Yeah, you you could even you could even see a situation where they get off on a lesser charge, right? Murder murder two or or right. Yes. Right. Yeah. Well, yeah, pushed him down the stairs or sure. Happen happened to a friend of ours, if you remember. I won't say his last name, but but

Duds: Right, like you didn't intend to murder them. Like you know, you hit or whatever and they ended up dying. You know, you or people get into fights all the time, you know, people get into fights on the street and people end up dying. It's like you didn't mean to kill that guy. Yeah. You didn't mean to kill him. Just happened.

Bright: Nick. You remember Nick from high school.

Duds: Right.

Bright: Somebody punched him, he fell back, hit his head on the curb, and that was it.

Duds: Right. I mean that's obviously a manslaughter, you know, it's like you didn't mean to do that, but you still did it, you know. But this guy

Bright: He was in college, but yeah. Right, right. He still did it. Yeah. Yeah.

Duds: he sounds obviously insane, but also like he did this f it that wasn't something that happened just like in a few minutes. Like that was a while.

Bright: They're right. Then that's that's the thing. And that's what was weird about Sonny Hostin is she was like, well he panicked after he killed her and then he did all these things. Like, okay, like you ca

Duds: Then he boiled her.

Bright: boy right. That's that's the that's where you take things to the next step.

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: Like Even a rational person, which again this is crazy conversation. You kill somebody, a rational person that's tr you you might try and hide the body, I guess, right? You go, you bury it somewhere. You don't immediately go to dismemberment and boiling and right, turning it into soup, flushing

Duds: Making soup. Eatin' brains.

Bright: it down the toilet. Like that it's you're taking it to the next level.

Duds: Yeah, sorry, pal.

Bright: And you know you know that you're taking it to the next level. And again, that's that's like Jeffrey Dahmer type stuff.

Duds: Mm. Yeah.

Bright: So yeah.

Duds: I'm surprised that was his only victim. Something that somebody that wild.

Bright: Well, as f as far as we know. All right. What happened with

Duds: So what happened to him?

Bright: the wall? So I got that. So of course he went to trial. like I said, the jury deliberated for nine days. They eventually found him not guilty of intentional murder and not criminally responsible for depraved indifference murder because of mental illness. I think that must be the legal. wording of it all, right? So doctors had testified about his serious mental illness including paranoid schizophrenia and psychosis. But again that is that's wander

Duds: So he's just out wandering the streets now or what?

Bright: in the streets of our left. No. So that's that's the thing. he did not simply walk out of court. He was committed to New York's secure forensic psychiatric system. He was basically in two thousand five was determined that or denied release. We'll say that. He was denied release in two thousand five and then denied release again in two thousand ten and he's still institutionalized to this day. So

Duds: And should be

Bright: Right. But he's not necessarily in that federal pound me in the ass penitentiary like we were talking about earlier. He's in

Duds: Right. Well I don't think you want him amongst other inmates either. The guy is

Bright: And yeah, you might not I'm not saying that this isn't the right spot for this guy.

Duds: Honestly, th he's like a perfect candidate for the death penalty, in my opinion. Like that's the kind of people you

Bright: Sure.

Duds: there's no rehabilitating somebody like that. Like even once you've

Bright: Right. No, no.

Duds: done that, like there's no coming back from that, I don't think. There's nothing you could do to repent for that.

Bright: Yeah, but then there will be arguments though that he doesn't deserve the death penalty because he wasn't in the right state of mind and and it'd almost be like he's disabled and there like you can't

Duds: Okay, but we still don't want amongst society. We don't want amongst our

Bright: You can't put a disabled person on the death penalty. We're not Nazis. Well, no, he definitely can't be he cannot be in society. He has to clearly he has to be removed, whether he's in jail or he's in s an institution like this. So that was Sonny Hostin's argument. Was like, hey, he's still where he needs to be. We just didn't find him guilty of the cr the cr criminally guilty of the crime as a result of insanity. But

Duds: So she's proud of that, huh?

Bright: She seemed proud of it, absolutely. And but again, we'll have to see where this story goes because this thirty five years later, her whole opinions could have changed. She's looking at this Lindsay Clancy thing. She sees the support that or anti support that some people are getting in that case. And and then she self identifies. But the question is, is is her memory accurate? We'll have to wait and see.

Duds: Yeah, I would say no, probably.

Bright: I wouldn't be surprised. But now again, I'd can you blame her after thirty five years?

Duds: Also, I feel like she doesn't have very good judgment. Like I don't think that I would be out there admitting that I you know

Bright: Well, so that was if you watch the clip, like the other the she's telling the story and the other guests are her hosts actually are like, You let this guy off? Like, whoa like

Duds: You you're crazy.

Bright: right, who are you? What do you t this guy is feeding people th fingers soup to homeless people? And you're like, Nope, this guy, he's not he's not guilty

Duds: Yeah, watch out for her. She sounds nuts.

Bright: Don't worry people. But the thing is, is by n by not making by not saying that he's guilty and then you like if you say he's guilty, you know what the sentencing is, right? Whether it's 30 years to life, life without parole, you know what the what's on the table. The

Duds: Mm-hmm.

Bright: judge can can make his decision, his or her decision. But when you say not guilty by insanity, you don't really know what's gonna happen after that. You go to a system like this, but then doctors could eventually say, yeah, you're good. You're fully recovered. Back now, this happened.

Duds: I think they've done that before. Yeah.

Bright: a hundred percent. This happened to the guy that shot that shot Reagan.

Duds: yeah, they let him out?

Bright: Yeah. They let him out. Yeah.

Duds: There was a story because of this Lindsay Clancy story, another one popped

Bright: Yeah.

Duds: up where another woman had done this, I don't know, years ago, and she had killed like three of her kids. They put her in like a mental facility and then they released her. And then she went and got remarried,

Bright: Yeah. And then they release that. Yeah.

Duds: had more kids, and did the same thing later. Yeah.

Bright: No.

Duds: I don't I don't know exactly what that story was, but it was

Bright: we might have to look that up. So she killed two sets of her children? Yeah. No.

Duds: Yes. Two different two different husbands.

Bright: Did the husband know who was?

Duds: I I don't know. I didn't look into it that far. I probably should have. It's probably all made up.

Bright: Ha ha.

Duds: It's on the internet. So we just made that up.

Bright: On the internets. Well, maybe we'll maybe we'll assign you some homework for the next episode. Maybe. Maybe. All

Duds: Maybe. Might have to grocket.

Bright: right. Are you ready for case number three? Is it better

Duds: Is it better than that one? That one's pretty wild.

Bright: than that one? It is, in the sense that it's not nearly as crazy

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: or gruesome. This one's a little bit more fun. and you're probably more familiar with you're definitely more familiar with this story. But I don't know if you heard, but on October 6th. McDonald's monopoly is back. Yeah, yeah, they're bringing it back.

Duds: really? That was always fun. But wasn't that rigged?

Bright: And Yeah, so that's what that's the whole story, right? So to talk about that a little bit. It was rigged, but maybe not in the way that you thought. And they did they have brought the game back before, but not like this. They're bringing it back to like old school, right? The peel and stick

Duds: Mm-hmm.

Bright: off of the food and the the different things. So like it was basically when we were growing up in the nineties, probably playing the game. I mean, do you remember playing the game? yeah. Did you ever

Duds: Right. yeah. Yep, for sure. I love Monopoly.

Bright: win anything?

Duds: on for McDonald's? I don't know. Probably like a free milkshake or something, you know. Yeah. Nothing not

Bright: The McDonald's. Yeah, French fries and right, right. You never nobody

Duds: the million dollar prize.

Bright: prize. Obviously not. You didn't win the million dollar prize unless you knew Uncle Jerry. And we'll get into that. Yeah.

Duds: Is that the Uncle Jerry? He was the wasn't he a mobster?

Bright: He w he he was connected to the mob, yes indeed he was. Yes, yes. So there was a documentary. It was a

Duds: Yeah. I think I I think I saw the documentary or something on that because he was like handing out to his buddies and and all the people in his circle were winning this these big prizes. I remember that.

Bright: Yep. Yep. So I'll I'll break it down for you. But the the documentary is really good. I think it's on HBO. I think it's called McMillians.

Duds: Yeah, I think I watched it.

Bright: yeah. And I watched that when it came out, which is pretty pretty interesting. But there is some crazy things in the story. Some of which were probably in the documentary, some that might not, or I at least I don't remember. but but yeah. So again, they announced it just on September twenty second. So this is breaking news.

Duds: yeah.

Bright: that it's coming out. Starts October sixth. And again, it's physical peel pieces on eligible menu items. And there'll be gameplay, redemption, but it all runs through the McDonald's app. They are doing prizes like the one million dollar cash, 2027 Jeep Cherokee, free McDonald's for a year, different food and loyalty rewards, and then there's other prizes. Did you ever know anybody that won anything other than a food item?

Duds: I don't think so. No. All I mean it's

Bright: No, me either. No.

Duds: just all that little yeah, free free French fries.

Bright: Yeah. Yep. Now it says the official odds are about one in five win something. Again, most of it is gonna be food related prizes. But but yeah, but you're right.

Duds: Yeah, more heart attack food.

Bright: But you have a twenty percent chance the game will run through November first or while supplies last. I guess if they run out of pieces before that.

Duds: So less than a month, huh?

Bright: yeah, less than a month, which isn't all that long per se. I feel like back in the day it ran longer, or maybe it was just that it ran more often. So they might run it for a month and then they take a couple of months off and then they bring it back and yeah yeah.

Duds: Maybe. Yeah. I don't know how you could ever make a I mean, thinking about that, how you could ever do a like a a game like that at McDonald's. it's probably

Bright: Yeah. Yeah.

Duds: only nationwide. I'm guessing it's not global, right? That they're doing it.

Bright: No. Yeah, I'm assuming nationwide, but yeah.

Duds: But still, how are you gonna make that like random and nobody know? You know, 'cause that's gonna be printed and put on these what it was like on the drinks and on the fries, right? Is usually how you got that stuff.

Bright: Yeah, drinks, fries, a couple of the the like like a Big Mac I think had right.

Duds: Right. How how would you how would you make sure that that wasn't gonna be, you know, messed with? Right.

Bright: Well, they weren't able to do it before. So we'll see if they're able to do it now. There are some things you have better analytics now, you can track things better, maybe with AI, so you can start noticing patterns. Probably easier. Well, it took

Duds: 'Cause they're gonna know. Like somebody's gonna know where they're going.

Bright: a long time for them to find Uncle Jerry and and it really wasn't that crazy of a system, but he did find a way so that other people would win and he could collect his cut without it being too obvious.

Duds: I can't remember how he did that. How did he actually get

Bright: Well, I'll I'll get I'll get into that too. But it'd be different if I had the the inside know how and you won and Nilla won. And my brother won. And like people will start asking questions. Like, huh, a lot of people in Matt's inner circle in St.

Duds: How come you haven't won yet?

Bright: Louis are winning, right? So he had to spread the wealth and make sure that people were winning in California, in New York, and Florida, right? Not everybody in his hometown. That might look a little suspicious, right?

Duds: Right. Through other connections and he was getting a little cut, I remember.

Bright: Right, yes. So that that's exactly how it worked. All right. So Uncle Jerry. That was his nickname. It was Jerome Jerry Jacobson. JJJ. Other otherwise. so McDonald's used an outside marketing company called Simon Marketing to administer all of their major promotions, not just Monopoly. Jacobson, Uncle Jerry, was Simon's director of security for the Monopoly game. So

Duds: Mm-hmm. He was high up there, yeah.

Bright: Hi up there, he's in charge. He was in charge of delivering the winning game pieces. So he knew which pieces were the winners. Right off the bat.

Duds: So you'd th you'd think you'd look at that guy almost immediately.

Bright: You that's what I was gonna say. He should be suspect number one. Right?

Duds: Yeah. Is anybody close to this guy winning?

Bright: So he had privileged access to the exact pieces that ordinary players desperately needed. Boardwalk. How many times did you get parkplace?

Duds: all the time. You'd get it, you'd think you were gonna win. Never get boardwalk.

Bright: Right. You're like, I just I just need boardwalk now. Yeah. There's only like one in the entire

Duds: Yeah.

Bright: country. Like you ain't getting it because Uncle Jerry had it. So okay, here's how the scam worked. Prosecutors said that Uncle Jerry stole the rare and high value pieces before any legitimate distribution.

Duds: Mm-hmm.

Bright: So they never went out to where they were supposed to go. He he basically

Duds: Yeah

Bright: had an X-acto knife. He knew exactly which ones they were. He broke the seal, pulled them out, replaced them with losers, resealed them, then delivered. Nobody was paying attention. They thought it was sealed, so they they thought that they were good to go. Right?

Duds: Idiots.

Bright: So yeah, I know. So what he did is he gave or he sold, more often than not, To friends and associates, the winning pieces. And so what actually ended up happening is is that those contacts, so he he would sell it. Let's say if I was Uncle Jerry, I'd c I'd go to you and be like, hey, I've got the million dollar boardwalk. I'll sell it to you right now for fifty thousand dollars. Or a hundred thousand dollars after somebody claims the million dollar prize. That would be the the option. And then you'd be like, okay, I'll I'll give you the fifty K cash right now. You give me the one million dollars. But you can't redeem it because you're my best bud. You run a podcast with me for Christ's

Duds: Right.

Bright: sake. People would people would figure it out, right? So now y

Duds: Yeah, gotta go find somebody else.

Bright: Yes. So now you have to go recruit somebody else that's gonna be the winner. And they would set up either either they would be located somewhere else in the country outside of say St. Louis, or they'd set up a fake address. It would end up being a whole big thing. Then they would s they would I won, I won, and they'd collect their money, and then they'd have to give you a cut. And then you'd maybe have to give me a cut. That's and that's more or less how it worked.

Duds: That's how the mob works.

Bright: So he built this whole network. So the fake winner would redeem the prize, the money would flow back to the recruiters, and then eventually To Uncle Jerry. some

Duds: King Pinger.

Bright: people some people that were recruited said they didn't really understand how it all worked. They didn't even necessarily know that they were in a conspiracy. Others clearly knew how and why they were getting

Duds: Call BS.

Bright: X. I know. I was like, how do people not really get it? Sure. Right, right. I tell

Duds: Wow, I I thought they were just handing these million dollar tickets out to everybody. Yeah. Come on.

Bright: you. then they'd have to stage the winner sometimes. like I I I think I remember that from the documentary, right? They'd they'd exactly

Duds: Feign surprise. look.

Bright: they'd go into a McDonald's and they they already had the winning piece and then they'd buy something and then they'd do the old switcheroo and then they'd jump for joy or right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know, right? You

Duds: I'm not a good enough actor to do that, I don't think.

Bright: have to be pretty nervous. All right, so how big was it? Prosecutors said that Jacobson took his first winning piece as early as nineteen eighty-nine. the first major announcement from the DOJ wasn't until 2001, and I'll get into that later. But they said at that time that it's been going on since at least nineteen ninety-five. the first announcement said that he he had made more than thirteen million dollars. And then later it was it was updated to twenty-four million dollars were stolen, I guess, in total.

Duds: my gosh.

Bright: So in total, twenty-four million dollars of prizes or money or what have you. At one point, a one million dollar prize was mailed to the Shriners.

Duds: yeah.

Bright: And yeah, and it was from Uncle Jerry, I guess. He he didn't know what to do with it, or maybe he screwed up somehow, so he mailed it to Shriners, and McDonald's did end up waiving their non transferable and so they paid out the one million dollars to Shriners, which was kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah.

Duds: Also some good came of it.

Bright: One million of twenty four million, I guess. What's important to note though is McDonald's is not implicated in this whatsoever. Right? They did not

Duds: Right. Yeah, 'cause it was just through a third party, really, right?

Bright: Correct. They did not know that it was rigged. They were not involved. No McDonald's employees were ever implicated at all. So it

Duds: And I think they said, if I remember correctly, like nobody actually won a big prize that wasn't involved in this, right? I don't think there was a single person that won

Bright: Right, correct.

Duds: something

Bright: no. Every everybody that won was involved. And that's the other thing is like why didn't you just quit when you were ahead? You won

Duds: Right. You could've. Get greedy.

Bright: a couple of million dollars, like call it quits. Let the game run its course.

Duds: Yeah, but I think that's what happens is people they start to get greedy. They they start doing this and they're like, look, it's working, it's working, nobody knows. We're smarter than everybody. So they keep doing it and they keep doing it. And

Bright: Of course that's yeah, they think they can get away with it. huh. Right. Yeah.

Duds: somewhere along the line somebody screws up and then it the

Bright: Yes.

Duds: whole system comes crashing down on

Bright: Yeah. So his mob family connection was with the Colombo family.

Duds: yeah, New Yorkers.

Bright: Yeah. Yep. Yep, yep, yep. My notes say here, don't say Mafia ran McDonald's Monopoly.

Duds: Mm-hmm.

Bright: I didn't just say that. It's too good

Duds: What your notes say?

Bright: of a headline. Mafia ran McDonald's Monopoly, right? It's too good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So

Duds: Doesn't surprise me. It it really makes you call into question all that stuff. You know, do they really have d it like the lottery? Are people actually winning the lottery or are those just

Bright: Right. Sure. Yeah. Of course yeah. Yeah, well there's many times when that's been rigged too, and usually those people get caught. Yeah. Yeah.

Duds: Right. Good.

Bright: For sure. All right. we'll wrap with this, and this is what's kinda crazy, is when this all went down. the original arrests were announced on August twenty first, two thousand one. Can you tell where this is going?

Duds: Like when do they actually do

Bright: A federal

Duds: it?

Bright: a federal grand jury announced a broader indictment involving the twenty-one defendants on September tenth, two thousand one. Yeah.

Duds: yeah. Right before September eleventh.

Bright: Uh-huh. And that was that. Nobody paid attention after that. The story just disappeared.

Duds: And it was gone. Disappeared.

Bright: Yeah. He did plead guilty in two thousand two. He received thirty seven months in a federal pound me in the ass prison. dozens of participants were prosecuted. You're right. Yeah. Well

Duds: I don't know if the mob goes to those prisons. I think the mob has pretty cushy prisons they go to.

Bright: yeah. What was the other what was the in the movie? What did they call the other prisons? Like the

Duds: Like a white collar person?

Bright: ones Yeah, is that what they call Just white collar? Yeah. White collar prison. Yeah, yeah. White collar Yeah.

Duds: Yeah, just like yeah, it'd be a nice, easy white collar, you know, you'd be going playing golf. They do have prisons like that, you know, where they're like they have golf courses and

Bright: sure. Yeah yeah. Yeah.

Duds: it they're like the Martha Stewart, you know, style prison. Yeah. She didn't go to she didn't go to a bad prison. It's more like a country

Bright: Yeah, that's what I was just about to say, right? For the embezzlers and yeah, no.

Duds: club.

Bright: Nope, I tell ya. I tell ya. so does learning the history of all this make the game more or less interesting? Do you have any intention to play? like how often do you even go to McDonald's anymore?

Duds: I well, that's the thing, is like I think it would be fun to play it, but it's not going to probably incentivize me to go to McDonald's because I'm just right. For sure. It's I think it's probably

Bright: Like it did though when you were twelve, it definitely incentivized you, right? Yeah.

Duds: it's good marketing. I think people will go to McDonald's and and buy the food and play the game. I personally won't do it. I don't think the the old story

Bright: Right.

Duds: of the mob being involved would deter me from doing it though.

Bright: You think that they've figured it out, right?

Duds: Yeah, the mob's probably gonna do it again. Like I don't think probably. Yeah. I don't think that they've fixed that.

Bright: So you think it's you think it's rigged again. All right. So if somebody came to you with say, Hey, I've got the million dollar ticket. You gotta split it with me though. I'll give it to you right now. You've got it. You claim it. You're on your own, but you gotta you gotta give me half. Do you do it?

Duds: No, 'cause I think I'd be getting set up. I wouldn't I wouldn't do it.

Bright: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Well the one of the interesting things, and I didn't say this, it's in the documentary though, is the way that they did the sting operation is they went and acted like a McDonalds film crew filming a documentary on one of the million dollar winners. And it was actually the FBI. Yeah. Yeah.

Duds: Yeah, I think I remember that. Yeah, I th I I remember that.

Bright: Right. Yeah, yeah. So if it so if you want to go check out the I think it was again, it's called McMillian, so that's it's a pretty good documentary. It's

Duds: Yeah, didn't they recruit some lady to like be part of that? She kinda knew what was going on and she was all nervous and they're like

Bright: It's interesting. Yeah, I think so. Right, right. Well eventually it it did come down through like an anonymous tip. Somebody said, Hey, go look at this guy, Uncle Jerry. Too many people are connected to him Right, probably. Yeah. Yeah.

Duds: I think it was the this woman, right? I think it was some woman that f was like starting to figure things out and then they were like recruited her to help the investigation.

Bright: Right. Yep, yep, yep. All right.

Duds: What about you? You gonna go to McDonald's, you gonna play?

Bright: I very rarely go to McDonald's anymore. I do like McDonalds though. I do like their food.

Duds: I don't know the the well the last time I went, I I actually went probably a month ago, but I only got the quarter pound patties, so I didn't get it. Right, no bread, no nothing. Just just the meat. And it was fine, but I mean,

Bright: That's what you said. Yeah. The patties. Not even the bread. Right. Yeah. Just the patties. Yeah. Yeah.

Duds: I'm not gonna go there for that all the time.

Bright: No. I I like their fish sandwiches.

Duds: It certainly doesn't taste like you know, like when you have the whole burger and everything. Sure it tastes good. But it's all fake, so

Bright: Right. Yeah, yeah. I like I like the burgers. I usually get the triple cheeseburger. That's what I get. And I do like their fish sandwiches. So like during Lent, even though I don't necessarily follow that, I'll go get the like buy one, get one free or buy buy one, get one for a dollar, fish sandwiches.

Duds: I've never been really a big fan of their fish.

Bright: that's the Phileo fish, man. It for whatever reason. And I've I've had other fish sandwiches from other fast food restaurants. I don't think they're as good. I don't know that I've had I don't know. I've certainly tried culverts, but don't know if I've had their fish sandwich.

Duds: Have you tried Culver's Culver's fish sandwich? And their fish, they have they have two fish sandwiches. I think they have a cod and then they have another one too. But Popeye's

Bright: Really? Yeah. Okay.

Duds: actually I think has fish also, which is pretty good.

Bright: Right. Hm. Yeah, I haven't had Popeyes in a while either.

Duds: Popeye's is good.

Bright: I don't know. Yeah, I d I mean I like myself some fast food, but I just don't do it very often. I was talking

Duds: No.

Bright: to my father in law the other day about lion's choice. Right, which I was like,

Duds: Haven't had that in years. Yeah.

Bright: Right. but I love Lion's Choice. B way better than Arby's.

Duds: yeah.

Bright: And again, for people that are on more or less our diet, like that's probably not that bad if you just go and get a bunch of ro even if you do put it on bread, it's probably still pretty pretty decent. Better than Arby's, definitely.

Duds: Mostly meat. Yeah.

Bright: Mostly meat. That's right. Yeah, yeah. Mostly meat. I cook highest

Duds: Sure, it's not like the highest quality beef.

Bright: quality beef. N well, but again, better than Arby's. You're getting better roast beef from Lion's Choice. Yeah. You assume.

Duds: You assume. It does taste better. I I mean I haven't like I said, I haven't had either of those in a long time, but I do remember Lion's

Bright: I guess. Yeah.

Duds: choice tasting better than Arby's. Arby's seemed just like cheaper, you

Bright: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

Duds: know.

Bright: Yeah, cheaper yeah, cheaper version. Yeah.

Duds: shoe leather type of beef. But still good though. I still eat it.

Bright: Well what do you say and s yeah, of course.

Duds: Remember the five for fives they used to have?

Bright: my god. Like how is that even a thing? Look

Duds: I know.

Bright: back at at that. I remember going w having a couple beers or something and then going and getting the five for five ninety-five. So

Duds: yeah.

Bright: five for six, right? But still and then we wouldn't get any drinks. I think they would bank on people getting a soda. We wouldn't do that.

Duds: Give me two five for fives.

Bright: I don't know. I think I think Nate Dog used to do that. I think he'd do that. But I'd get like two roast beef sandwiches, two

Duds: Get the ham and cheese.

Bright: two cheese sticks. And then what else did they have? And then one other thing. Fries or a ham

Duds: And the curly fries.

Bright: and cheese curly fries? I think I would do that. So or do like three I three roast beefs, one mozzarella stick, one curly fry. Y you were good. Yeah, of course.

Duds: you were mixing up the other stuff with the fives, yeah. I would always just get the sandwiches, I think.

Bright: I think, but it's like five for ten. Inflation.

Duds: Yeah. Inflation.

Bright: Alright, so instead of local in the loo tonight, what do you say we record an episode of City S C posse? You game? Did

Duds: Didn't we try that? Didn't we try that last time?

Bright: we try that? We did try that one time and it didn't work out so well. But Kev is on vacation, he can't record, and I don't want to go two weeks without a a City S C posse, so I figured I'd just talk at you and you can react.

Duds: Sure, 'cause I'm not gonna have a whole lot to contribute.

Bright: All right. Well, we'll end we'll end this episode right here of NFNP. And if you want to listen in on the local and the loo, we'll talk a little St. Louis City SC. So check us out on City SCP at NFNP Pod dot com.

Duds: Later.